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 GB#2 Rules or more like actual guidelines?
Karen
Posted: Jan 6 2009, 08:04 AM


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I posted a bit of information the other day on the Victorians. There sure appears to be some variance in the "surface" or public accepted behavour of the time. Since we discussed Miss Temple yesterday, that takes us into today's discussion topic.


How does the author use the Victorian "restrictions" placed on women and the society in general? And were they rules or more like guidelines? How did Mr. Dahlquist use them in "Glass Books of the Dream Eaters"?


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amp
Posted: Jan 6 2009, 09:49 AM


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As long as you came from a powerful family, had an education, had connections, and could be completely clandestine and avoid recognition, the "rules" really didn't apply to you.
Gee, how much things haven't really changed.

I would say there was a stronger double standard, but it seems if you had the means, the rules were more like guidelines.


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sandsitive
Posted: Jan 6 2009, 11:59 AM


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It's been awhile since I finished this book but I think it's actually both. Guidelines for the rich and yet rules for everyone else. When Miss Temple returned to the hotel after following Roger to Harschmort the hotel staff and even her servants turned a blind eye to her condition.
Later, when she and Doc are looking into one of the glass cards, Doc is embarrassed knowing what Miss Temple is seeing. In reverse, she gets done viewing it and is blushing but brazen enough to go forward. To me this showed he still followed the rules, where Miss Temple thought of them as guidelines. She also used them to her advantage when she needed to.


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Artemisa
Posted: Jan 6 2009, 02:34 PM


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I think in all societies, no matter in which century, there will always be those who have no desire to conform, and who possess the confidence to live life to their rules, and no-one else's. However, the Victorian era was particularly repressive for women - I've found Miss Temple's independence and courage add much to the flavour of the novel.

Although I haven't finished the book yet, sofar my feeling is that the author has transported the reader back to a place in time where sexuality was repressed (or at least mostly hidden) and therefore made credible the idea of a "secret society" whose converts would long for the erotic experiences offered by the glass books themselves. I admire the way he suggests sexual scenes without becoming explicit or resorting to crude language. Some scenes I have found surprising, and shocking - yet most are written in a very understated way.





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amp
Posted: Jan 6 2009, 05:37 PM


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QUOTE (Artemisa @ Jan 6 2009, 03:34 PM)
I admire the way he suggests sexual scenes without becoming explicit or resorting to crude language. Some scenes I have found surprising, and shocking - yet most are written in a very understated way.

Well said --I strongly agree.


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herestoyou
Posted: Jan 6 2009, 07:02 PM


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I think it's human nature somewhat to "rebel" a bit against guidelines/rules/ etc. Of course, not everyone will, but I often see these "moral" rules put out by some(today as well as in other time periods) more like "Do as I say, not as I do" If you look at different time periods throughout history, there's been this double standard of the way women should be treated, as well as behave. The ones that didn't follow the rules were labeled "whores, harlots, etc. "

I think we could look at a world/society ruled by men for the most part, so the rules are coming from that perspective. Of course they want their wives/girlfriends to be faithful, chaste, but on their side, if they "stray", it was considered somewhat acceptable----as long as done discreetly.

As others have commented, we still sadly see this same double standard somewhat today, however, women have definitely come "a long way baby" from Victorian times.

In Glass Books, I was appalled at the way the women were treated as objects---to the extreme! MTemple was a breath of fresh air acting/reacting in the way probably many women of the time wished they could have behaved.

-Donna

P.S.I enjoy reading everyone's thoughts on this smile.gif


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nemosfriend
Posted: Jan 6 2009, 09:30 PM


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I think its great how Karen has given us a lot of resources for further study of this period. Alas, I know I won't have time to look at them all. I agree with the comments that every age has it's rules, and that women in general have been and still are in many ways second class. I found the sections of the book dealing with the exploitation of women, frankly, almost unreadable. But it's a reminder of what women have suffered and continue to suffer in many parts of the world.
Karen
Posted: Jan 6 2009, 10:26 PM


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Yup, women have come a long way. I liked that the author has Miss Temple relying on her own devices and holding her own with Chang and the Doctor in their fight. applause.gif Celeste IS her own person!


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sandluvsjd
Posted: Jan 7 2009, 04:13 AM


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I believe that Men look at it as guidelines and EXPECT women to follow them as RULES. Even in todays world it is still a double standard regarding the rules or guidelines. Yes women have come a long way and will not quietly follow orders or what is expected of them. But it is still a struggle to be equal. Even with women using their strengths and wit men still try to undermine them. Anyway, it was very difficult during the Victorian times for many reasons. Of course the way men expected their women to be but also there were the women of wealth and privlige that also expected the women to "behave". This made it harder for a woman to stand up and be heard. She would be an outcast.
Miss Temple is a shining light in this book because she is strong and brave. She is the perfect "modern woman" for her time period. She would need that strength she shows us to continue her quest. Also the strength to stand up to the "RULERS" and not let them bring her down. I believe there were women like her during that time period that made it through all the muck of what is expected of a woman without falling into the pits of exploited women. Just my thoughts. Sorry to ramble on. wink.gif Sandra
amp
Posted: Jan 7 2009, 07:32 AM


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Not to get too far ahead -but
How interesting that the Contessa is exploiting both women and men for her own ends. She uses her beauty as a weapon. She is making up her own rules, enforces them - and the rules do not apply to her!
Is this not the ultimate revenge as a woman?


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Karen
Posted: Jan 7 2009, 08:01 AM


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Everyone's made such good points with this one!! Thanks so much, it's nice to read how we all see things.

Yup, AMP, you are right and you we'll get into The Contessa here. Now there's a piece of work. blink.gif


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Depputante
Posted: Jan 7 2009, 12:21 PM


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I guess , in this book, they are more like guidelines, to develop the mysterious atmosphere. Maybe.

I certainly don't know of any Victorian era women who would escape by jumping across the roof tops !
Artemisa
Posted: Jan 7 2009, 02:32 PM


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Scarlett O'Hara is a good example of a women who "kicked over the traces" without compromising her honour!



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John Wilmot, 2nd Earl of Rochester
(1647 - 1680)
herestoyou
Posted: Jan 7 2009, 06:43 PM


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QUOTE (amp @ Jan 7 2009, 06:32 AM)
Not to get too far ahead -but
How interesting that the Contessa is exploiting both women and men for her own ends. She uses her beauty as a weapon. She is making up her own rules, enforces them - and the rules do not apply to her!
Is this not the ultimate revenge as a woman?

YES! She's a creeepy character, but she sure had both sexes scrambling throughout the book....

-Donna


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Karen
Posted: Jan 7 2009, 09:14 PM


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applause.gif


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