Burrough took great pains to show us that Hoover really wanted Dillinger taken down, plain and simple.



Why did Dillinger push his buttons?

After reviewing PE I forgot that Hoover did not not initially want to become involved in the Dillinger case (p.247). I personally think that Dillinger's ego and love of publicity is what lit the fire under Hoover to decide that the FBI had better start hunting the nation's most wanted man (p.249). Dilinger dominated the nation's newspaper headlines for several weeks and no one had any idea where he was which also enraged Hoover-Purvis at this time had not acquired the skills to utilize informants to secure information on the slippery Dillinger. The final insult to Hoover and the FBI was the St. Paul gunfight when Dillinger escaped because a well known St. Paul corrupt police officer and two FBI agents who did not know how to use submachine guns-thus making Hoover and his federal police force look inept (p 273). Burroughs relates in the book that Hoover was amazed that Dillinger was bold enough to even fire at his men (p. 274) which I find pretty funny!! Hoover demanded that any information on Dillinger's whereabouts go through the main office which plainly made it Hoover's gig until Dillinger's death. I think that famous photo of Dillinger with prosecutor Robert Estill really burned at Hoover's ego. Dillinger died at a young age but I bet he made an impact on Hoover that he carried in the back of his mind for the rest of his life. Anne r

I agree Anne---Hoover had a big, if not bigger, ego than Dillinger. He was making the fledgling FBI look ridiculous which could have jeopardized Hoover's position as head of the FBI. Also, Dillinger was becoming something of a "Robin Hood " personality in the media,and I think Hoover could see his popularity spinning out of control. Also, didn't the book mention that Hoover's hands were tied until Dillinger stole a car and drove out of state making it a federal offense? I bet Hoover was going nuts having to sit back and watch JD.

-Donna

NurseAnne8 you said here what I was going to. Some body said he was cocky, and he ad that snarky grin. I bet JEH hated looking at those pix. And he had a lot of pressure from the higher ups to get him.

Donna you are right about the car but I thought it was interesting as Burroughs said that Hoover considered Dillinger a "potential quagmire" ( p. 247) and resisted being drawn into the hunt for Dillinger but the newspaper headlines changed his mind. Just think what impact the internet would have had on their relationship? Anne r

This may have been in the book and I just don't remember, but why did Hoover consider going after JD a quagmire? Was it because of JD's popularity or was it that he knew his young FBI wasn't up to the task?

-Donna

Borroughs says on page 247 that dozens of agents were still working on the unsolved massacre and Bremer investigations and Hoover considered these priorities over Dillinger. After Dillinger's Crown Point escape Hoover had a memo circulating stating that Dillinger was not a "federal prisoner". Hoover still showed restraint when he first communicated with Pruvis about what information his informants could provide to lead to Dillinger's arrest. Purvis basically had no informants and was not sure if he could legally wiretap phones in Illinois illustrating the unclear boundaries between the novice federal police force and the state police forces. Anne r

Thanks for the info. Anne--yes, they were overstretched and undermanned, so it would make sense that going after Dillinger would be tough. I also think it interesting how the "local" police were at times better at getting to Dillinger than the FBI. Definitely makes the case for having a network of informants to help in crime fighting.

I can imagine Hoover just fuming with all that happened with Dillinger. As HeidiG said, JD being somewhat cocky and posing with the police like their good buddies, must have sent Hoover through the roof.

-Donna

I am sure it did-from what I have read Hoover wanted to be front and center and
besides being cocky Dillinger was even better to look at-poor JEH. :huh: Anne r

Isn't that the truth? :lol: I'd love to know who will play Hoover---could be a very minor part as we really haven't heard about any "name" attached.

-Donna

Well ya'll we have this http://johnnydeppreads.com/index.php?showtopic=5019


:crossfingers

I remember that Karen! Think it will be Kilmer? It would seem he would have shown up as being part of the film by now---unless it will just be a cameo...

~D

I don't know Donna :unsure: we have that one special effects site talking about it and the author alluding to it. Hoover wouldn't be needed for exterior shots, so he may not come on until later in the filming schedule????

I think that Hoover will have some sort of a part in the film-because the FBI story to me is the Hoover story-true this film is about the gangsters but JEH needs to be in it somewhere-I have not seen Kilmer in a film in a while but I am sure he can do it. Anne r

I could see his parts mainly being "on the phone" type bits with Purvis, so those could be shot later, too. I'll have to find a recent pic of Kilmer---haven't heard much from him lately.......

-Donna

web site www.valkilmer.com has recent pictures and info on the actor-with make up he could pass for Hoover. Just FYI. Anne r

I think it was definitely a battle of egos. Who was gonna take down who?

Good question Ellen.

Dillinger had charisma. He had public appeal. Just as Burrough's stated, it was the 1930s, the depression. Dillinger was a type of Robin Hood. He robbed the very banks that were foreclosing on homes and farms. Dillinger avoided getting caught (at least to a point). He outsmarted the authorities and made Hoover look like a fool. Plus, Hoover's job was at stake. He had a lot riding on catching Dillinger.

After seeing Kilmer in Kiss Kiss, Bang Bang I can see him as Hoover.

I was stunned by my impression of how petty Hoover could be. Especially in his dealings with Purvis. So I buy into the idea that inwardly he seethed at how much publicity Dillinger was getting. Plus, many of the other gangsters of the time were only "locally" known - Bonnie & Clyde as well as Nelson (?) were known as mainly Southwestern US criminals and only getting press there. But Dillinger grabbed national headlines from the start. That had to crank up the pressure on Hoover.

I kept thinking "Keystone Kops" about the early days of the FBI. Man! They were letting tips and info escape them left & right. Hoover had a lot of goofs to overcome and he had to be taking some serious heat from Washington nearly every day. As a fledgling agency he had a lot to prove to earn and keep his budget and existence alive.

I agree-keystone cops for sure! Hoover was under the gun and it's amazing that the FBI ever really came together during those "goofed up" times. It definitely was a learning experience for the young organization.

-Donna