Bryan Burrough was really able to give us an idea what the relastionship was between Billie (Evelyn) Frechette and John Dillinger. Because information about Polly Hamilton is sketchy, she is more of an enigma to us.


What did you all think of John and Billie's relationship? And what about Polly?

I think that for what the circumstancses were, they had a pretty decent relationship. He really seemed to love her and was desperate for her to get a divorce so they could marry. On page 155 Burrough writes that the first words that Dillinger spoke to her were "Hey Baby. Where have you been all my life?"
These were young people, I think she was 25? 26? She said he "treated her like a lady." On the PBS site she's quoted as saying " John was good to me. He looked after me and bought me all kinds of clothes and jewelry and cars and pets, and we went places and saw things, and he gave me everything a girl wants. He was in love with me."

But I wonder what kind of life did they really have? Always on the run? Always being watched. Always watching. Not being able to relax. They coudn't even go to a vacation lodge without being afraid.

I don't know that I was really happy about the idea of him hooking up with Polly so quickly after Billie was arrested though.

It sounds to me like Billie had a pretty rough time of life in her early days. I am just wondering how much of a lady she was treated like with her earlier men. Then along comes a gentleman of sorts.....I am sure that she loved being so well treated.

There is one quote that really gets to me. It is on page 156
" Both had lived such scarred and disappointing lives. She could see they were falling in love."

I think that Billie and Dillinger's relationship was a product of the times-Dillinger was a charmer and was trying to live life at 100 mph because he knew it was a matter of time before he would be gunned down or executed for his crimes. Dillinger seemed to have true feelings for Billie and treated her well. Billie was in love with Dillinger and enjoyed the attention and gifts he bestowed on her. I think that Dillinger formed an attachment to Polly while Billie was serving time to continue to have female companionship but Polly stated that she doubted Dillinger really loved her. I like the idea of Dillinger being true and faithful to Billie but considering his constant life on the run he found happiness and love where he could. Anne r

I agree that Dillinger had feelings for Billie and since she was willing to put up with his chosen "profession", that drew him even closer to her. I also agree that Billie enjoyed being treated so well by Dillinger, but it must have been hard leading that "on the run" life. Again, given the times, maybe she enjoyed the "thrill" and lifestyle JD provided. I was also suprised and disappointed that JD took up with Polly, but as Anne said, he probably knew that he could be caught/killed any minute, he apparently liked going out on the town, so wanted a female companion. I wonder, if he hadn't been killed, would he have developed closer feelings for Polly, or was Billie his one true love?

-Donna

I am such a romantic at heart, I want to think that Billie was his real true love, and Polly, bless her, was some one to be with at the time?

NurseAnne8 said

That rather makes sense Anne.

Good thoughts y'all!

I found it interesting that John never mentioned Billie after she landed in jail. I know he was stuck between a rock and a hard place because he couldn't go see her, but he seemed to take up with Polly pretty easily. Unless Dillinger could have been interviewed about Billie, I'm sure we'll never know exactly how he felt.

I think Polly would have gone along with anything. Do you think maybe she was bored like Bonnie Parker?

Ellen great thought I bet Polly was bored she did not have much going on-and we will never know how Dillinger felt about Billie as you said-and I think he took up with Polly to have female companionship-never mind "true love" since he was on the run. I have been reading your thought provoking responses to the questions and will respond in a few days to the other questions. Anne r

I thought he went and sat outside her prison once and talked about her to his lawyer about breaking her out?

Side note...I didn't find this in PE...I am reading "Don't Call Us Molls" and it is heartbreaking...Billie had a baby at an early age and was forced to leave him in a home in Chicago. The home was run by some shady people that would send the mothers out to work and have them to send money back to care for the baby while telling them that the baby was too sick to leave...Often the baby was killed and the owners still collected money. There is the saddest letter from Billie asking about her son. Broke my heart.

Osh, you are correct. He did sit outside the prison. The following is from PBS American Experience:

"Before his death, Dillinger frequently met Piquett or his legal investigator, Arthur O'Leary. Each time he asked about Frechette's appeal, even though he was already dating Polly Hamilton. In one letter Frechette sent Dillinger through O'Leary, she begged him not to try to rescue her, for fear he would be killed. In spite of her protests, on July 11, 1934, Dillinger told O'Leary on about a recent trip to Milan, Michigan. He had driven there to see the federal prison where Frechette was being held. After looking over the surrounding area, he reluctantly decided that any escape attempt would be impossible."

I believe Polly was someone who fulfilled his needs. I believe he did really love Billie, but when he realized that there was no getting her out of prison he turned to Polly on the rebound and/or to feel his needs.

Here is the PBS link ~ http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/amex/dillinger/peo..._frechette.html

THanks for this infor about Billie and John. I think that he did love her, but it was such an impossible situation for them both. I'm looking forward to reading Ellen Poulson's book.

So far it is a good book. Lots more photographs than PE, which I like in a non fiction book because it helps to place me "at the scene" so to speak. Very cute picture of Dillinger in his Navy duds before he went AWOL and a picture of his wife Beryl also.

Osh,

I received Ellen Pollsen's book last week and haven't had the chance to read it yet. I have a final paper due today and hope to get started on the book this weekend. I'm anxious to participate in the book discussion. :snoopy

I need to read faster!

Are we doing a book discussion on this one? :blink:

-Donna

We can do a small, informal chat if you all want to? I am reading it anyway. :unsure:

I'm not reading it---I just thought I missed an announcement somewhere :lol:

-~D

I meant I wanted to comment to Osh about the book. I'm sorry if I confused things here. :unsure:

Christine it's easy to confuse me-lol. Sounds like some others are reading the book, too. :)

-Donna

Donna 5.9.2008 @ 11:34 p.m.

Donna, trust me, you're not alone there!! :lol:

LOL Me too.

I'm tired.. we spent over two hours just sitting on the tarmack this afternoon once we pushed away from the gate.... :angry:

Oh Karen, I'm really sorry to hear that you had to sit there for that long!! Flying is becoming a REAL pain!! Hope you're able to get a good night's sleep tonight.

oh, are we going to discuss it? If so, that will be very exciting! I'm bummed a little because my book has a flaw in the binding...the glue split along the back so my book now opens in the middle and is flat...does that make sense?

And I am still reading PE. I just had to stop when Dillinger died.

edit to add that I just read all the confusion about the book discussions...but I am still excited! woohoo

I hadn't planned on doing a formal discussion, but am reading the book myself. IF some of you would be interested in a more informal discussion then I am happy to do that. Just let me know. ;)

Karen, I would. I was up until 7am reading and just wanted to talk about it with somebody!

I really feel like I understand the Billlie/Johnnie relationship much better now.

Okie dokie! I'm really interested in this book and the stories that she tells!!

Karen, I'm in if there are others who are interested in discussing it. I just started it this evening, so I will need to catch up a bit.

Osh, how far are you in the book?

Christine, I am on page 138, when Dillinger escapes from Crown Point and Sheriff Holley is taking the fall...

Like I said, I kept going online to supplement even more. I am just fascinated now by this era.

Mary Kinder plays an important role in the gang as well, I wonder if she is in the movie?

You are way further along than I am! :unsure:

I'm going to go out on a limb and assume it is because you sleep... ;)

I've been known to sleep a bit, every now and then. lol

Osh, you are pretty far ahead!! Hang tight, I really want to hear your thoughts on Billie and John.

I'm anxious to read about Polly and her relationship with John.

OK, I can stop and wrap up PE... :D

I don't know where to post this...it is about the Moll book and about the movie...

At the end of the Moll book Billie's last husband said she was a lady and never wore slacks...

At the filming in Beaver Dam on Tuesday Marion is pictured wearing slacks...this is another thing that will bug me to no end. Surely Colleen Atwood did her homework? I know in the Public Enemies book Billie is always wearing "flashy bright" dresses, much to Dilllingers chagrin.

Why oh why does this bother me so? Oh yeah, I have OCD, that's why.

OK I'm going to take a wild stab here at a thought. lol Isn't it a broad and presumptuous statement for someone to make (who didn't know her ALL of her life ) to say that she NEVER wore slacks????

Also...isn't it in one of the Dillinger based books that she dressed as a man for one of their meetings? Or am I beginning to confuse what I've read with the pics we've seen?? :unsure:

LOL, you are right Karen. I think I need more rest than I am getting. Maybe I had better stop over analyzing this to death.

As for the dressing as a man part, I don't remember...but the scene shot in Beaver Dam she was dressed every bit a lady, except for the darn slacks. Ha ha.

I was once asked a question, that wanted me to make a blanket statement about something that occured before my birth. LOL I laughed and said I couldn't swear to anything that might or might not have happened that I would have no first hand knowledge. hehehe That's why I said what I did. "Never" is an all encompassing word. ;)

LOL I had said that I'd "never" ride Space Mountain again...well someone coerced me into it. Once. lol

Oooohhh, I'm bummed and missing out. haven't got my book yet =( Also, computer is broken so my JDR time is now severely limited :(

Squinting to read posts at the library...

I admit I'm a bit addicted to blogging and JDR but going cold turkey was not in my plan. waaaaa....

And that person will never try again. :lol:

Anne x