Originally Posted by Karen 2nd October 2006


In "The Tribunal", Anna Petrovna has a woman in the house to help with the cleaning and house hold chores, yet she has her young son (who is clearly embarrassed, as he turns away) help to bathe her. Why did Anna do this? Why use her son?

Herestoyou


That was an interesting part of the book. She's obviously close to her son as she's allowed him to sleep in her bed, too. I don't know if it's anything perverted on her part. She definitely has had problems with male relationships. Does she think that Alyosha is still too young to have feelings for the opposite sex? Would she have been more self conscious if she was still married and there was another male in the house? Need to think more on this one.............

Nurseanne8


The reference to Alysoha viewing Anna's bathing made my child abuse antennae start sending messages to my brain-and resulted in the conclusion that Anna is preverted and a child abuser. But Meek does not provide such clear messages about his characters' motivations and thereby forcing me to consider other aspects of Anna's personality. On page 177 Anna's extreme state of isolation is described when she attempted to rape Balashov after being in Yatzy a year after drinking a little to much cognac. Meek has the courage to use the character of Anna to explore the strong sexual urges of women-which many authors avoid unless it is a work of porn. Anna and Balashov had a satisfying sexual relationship before he went off to war. After Balashov's act of castration-Anna is left floundering because her married life is over forever-and she deals with it the best way she can. I believe the assistance with bathing and sharing a bed with Alysoha began when he was very young and he was totally innocent- which provided Anna a relationship with a male. Anna is unaware that Alyosha's innocence is replaced with prepubescent curiosity and embarrassment at the sight of her nude body. SPOILER ALERT: The entry regarding Anna and her bath sets the stage for Meek's futher description of Anna' s sexual needs and desires (pages 225 and 295) which provide the catalyst for the climax of the novel. Anne r

Deppraved


I'm not convinced it was overtly sexual, but it is a kind of abuse, and she seemed unaware on a conscious level to the gravity of her actions and the impact it would have on her son, of whom she must have felt very possessive.

Nurseanne8


Deppraved I agree it was not overt but covert-the actions must have met some need she had for human contact-by the description of the villege their were no residents who befriended Anna and her son and he had no other children to play with so he probably possessive of his mother-as she was of him-did the concept of child abuse exist in the early 1900's? Meek's use of this topic gives us one more theme to dwell on-which is brillant on his part but disturbing to me. Did you check out pages 225 and 295-those blew me away. Anne r

Karen


I don't know...I had a real problem with this, as there's also the use of a young boy as a sexual "partner"...she very easily could have and should have used the cleaning woman to aide her with her bath. Why else did Meek put the woman in the story other than to point out that she "used" her son?

I'm just not comfortable with the character's choices when it comes to "using" young boys.

Nurseanne8


Maybe Meek wanted to show how desparate and unhappy Anna was and this act further illustrates the desparation of Anna- I do not believe that childrens rights and the topic of abuse were really acknowledged as a problem-until after WW2 when the large number of ophrans forced the world to admit that child abuse occurs-I agree this part of the book makes me squirm-and I wonder if it could have been left out? Anne r

Karen


This is something that I wish we had asked Meek....there was a reason he included the cleaning woman....we need to know.

I'll see if another question might be accepted by him. Bless his heart, we've asked so many now.

Nurseanne8


True-but child abuse is hard to understand no matter what the era or are we making to much of it? and maybe Anna is guilty as charged -child abuser!!

Karen


I don't think we are making too much of it. It's something to be discussed, and that's what we are doing. He seems to usually have a reason for what he tells us.

Nurseanne8


Then guilty as charged-but I still question what the norms and definition for child abuse were in the era of 1920.

Herestoyou


Interesting responses to this question, it was an uncomfortable scene in the book. I'm still not sure it was abuse in that day. Did Anna bathe Alyosha or help with his bath? Yes,this is definitely a good question for Meek as we all seem to have taken an interpretation of the scene. Not really sure what my interpretation would be. I'm still thinking Anna is somewhat in denial of the fact that Alyosha is growing up and she wants to keep him young, her baby so that he won't end up leaving her someday. Again, not a very healthy situation, either.

Nurseanne8


what about the description of the "young castrate" that Anna paid on page 295-does that change your opinion-it does mine supports the original bath description and gives more evidence to her character-check it out. Anne

Herestoyou


It doesn't say how old the "young lad" is in the book, but since he's chopping wood I would guess late teens. I reread the bath scene and I think she just felt more comfortable with her son than the cleaning woman. He is there mainly to pour the water over her and to rinse the soap off. Yes, I know that's still strange for a child to be doing, but I don't think it was meant as abuse. I'll keep thinking on this one................It would be nice if Meek could comment on this.......

Nurseanne8


But why did Meek put this in-if it is of no consequence? I am convinced that child abuse as defined today did not exist in that era. Possibly Mutz utilized both scenes to illustrate Anna's pain and desperation as I orginally posted- the young castrate prostituted himself for Anna's needs-further illustrating her mental anguish. Meek's response to this issue would clarify the issue and I believe Karen is doing some behind scenes work on this issue. Anne r

Herestoyou


Or also to show that Anna really is flawed human being. In many ways she's selfish putting her needs above those of her child? I'm just guessing here......

Nurseanne8


herestoyou-you could be right-and later in the book Meek shows the consequences of her selfish behavior-but does she learn anything and will she change her ways? Anne r

Herestoyou


That's the million dollar question, isn't it? Even in the end, she decides to stay---was that for her benefit or was she considering the safety of her son? I guess if it was me, I would want to get my son out of there to a safer country. Then again, maybe she wants him to see the importance of believing in your own country and believing in a "cause."

Nurseanne8


I have to think about this for a while-would sex be part of the relationship with the editor of the newspaper?

Herestoyou


LOL-in Anna's case, it would certainly seem to fit the way she operates! I hadn't thought of that, good point.........

Karen


I have to think about this for a while-would sex be part of the relationship with the editor of the newspaper?

Hmmmmm....Good question.....I just don't think she's considering her son...

Nurseanne8


so Anna is selfish and self-centered ?and whose fault is that-effect of her relationship with her father or her lack of a relationship with Balashov after his castration? We covered her relationship with men earlier if I remember correctly-it seems to be a catalyst for all the decisions in her life?

Karen


Yup. She's been rejected by the 2 main men in her life....her father and her husband. That would scar you for life...

Nurseanne8


ok so she will ruin her son's life?

Herestoyou


Unless she stops caring mainly for herself, she may put him in more danger. Even though she's attentive while he's injured, she does appear to be concerned more with her future than her son's. Will Alyosha stay with her as he gets older, or leave............