Originally Posted by Karen 13th February 2006


THE GINGER MAN by JP Donleavy is a book that was written 50 years ago and as we well know by Johnny's enthusiasm about it (and so many other people's) is still popular today.

Sebastian Balfe Dangerfield is a very typical "anti-hero" and as we know, "the anti-hero of a drama or narrative is notably lacking in heroic qualities." And "The Antihero is someone with some of the qualities of a villain, up to and including brutality, cynicism, and ruthlessness, but with the soul or motivations of a more conventional Hero."

Just for some fun as we start our discussion about The Ginger Man...there are other movies where Johnny has played an anti-hero. Who is your favorite anti-hero and why? How does he relate to Dangerfield?

Here's a clue about one of them (there are many) **You will NOT like me.** That could have easily been said by Sebastian Balfe Dangerfield.

Deppraved


My favorite Depp anti-hero is George Jung, (even better that he lives and breathes) because he was a decent soul gone awry-very vulnerable and very human-but his ideals were misplaced.

I think there is a lot of Sebastian Dangerfield in men like Jung (and I've known quite a few in the days of my youth--I can relate to Mary)..thinking somehow they are above the rules of the rest of the human race-having their own idea of right and wrong, and being very adept at rationalising their actions and denying the problems they bring upon themselves.

And yet-they are dripping with so much charm and joie de vivre that you can't help but be attracted to the Danger-and how appropo is that for a nickname??

Lynxxx67


Mine would undoubtedly have to be Lord Rochester. On the surface he would appear to be the epitomy of bad behaviour; the excesses of drink, wenching, disrespect and dishonourability. But underneath, someone who is driven to scratch away at what he sees as counterfeit or untrue in the context of 'decent society'. I also felt him intensely vulnerable and a victim of his own lust for life and truth.

Karen


There are more.......

Jeppody

Yes, there are. Lots of them, so I am going to pick two, because I'm greedy.

My first is obvious for anybody who knows me - Sands is my man

He's a nasty piece of work, out for himself, and loves stirring up trouble, but he still has a soft spot, just look at the way he worries for the Bubblegum boy.

My other choice is the wonderful Captain Jack Sparrow. I do think of him as an anti-hero. He has the charm, he is out for himself and will do anything to get his ship back, but underneath, we see that he is caring too. But you don't need me to explain Jack to you, he has to be the most discussed of any of Johnnys characters.

I must admit, I do have a different view to Karen as to how Dangerfield sees himself. I don't think he does expect people to dislike him, and I get the impression that he thinks that he always gets treated unfairly, and doesn't understand why. But I guess we all see different things in people and books, which is why these discussions are so much fun.

Jill


And let's not forget Dean Corso. He's a liar and a cheat. And I quote, "...a dirty-dealing, money-grubbing, b*****d!"

And although we all end up rooting for him over Balkan, he does sell his soul to Satan. Hello...I'd say that's the ulimate "anti".

Deppraved

This is so true and I agree. Dangerfield seems to think the world owes him something and has no clue why he isn't regarded with the dignity and respect he deserves.

Lynxxx67


Ofcourse it could work in the other direction, too! What about a character that everyone roots for, right till (almost) the end? Someone who would seem to fall foul of 'outside forces', acts of others and not knowing who to trust. A victim of circumstances? Only at the end does he actually become the 'anti hero'.

Enter Mr Mort Rainey.

Karen

I do think that SD could have said that to the people in his life, he didn't care about them liking him, whether they "owed" him something or not. He only had one goal in life and I don't think that was it, rather like our dear Captain Jack Sparrow... LOL BUT... there's another discussion question coming later this week about that.

Giselle


i agree w/all the noted anti-heroes johnny has played. in my opinion i think dangerfield comes closest to the earl or dean corso. all of them ooze charm and can use that charm in a very manipulative manner. and, to be cliche, they all have good qualities that may be buried under other characteristics. all 3 are also very intelligent and talented - although dangerfield doesn't seem to do anything, yet. and all 3 take destructive paths in one way or another....despite their intelligence.....

i think johnny is much too humble and sweet-natured (and this is also opinion as i realize i only know what he allows the public to see) to be manipulative - but he is also very intelligent and knows exactly what his strengths are. if he had a different personality he could have been any of these anti-heroes he's played, using those amazing looks and charm to get what he wanted.

complex characters such as dangerfield and the other anti-heroes are much more interesting to read about and watch in movies. i can imagine they are much more interesting to actors who like to sink their teeth into their parts.

Jeppody


OK, I've come up with another anti-hero, though unless the film ever gets made properly, we may never know just how much of an anti-hero he actually is. That would be Toby in The Man who killed Don Quixote. From the little we have seen of him in Lost in La Mancha though, I think this is another of those characters.