Originally Posted by Karen 16th November 2005

We've pretty much covered Rochester from the prologue to the ending with Wilmot in Elizabeth's arms as he is dying in their bed.

Do you like him now?

Why or why not? Please share your views of Rochester and his transformation.

Hibblette


I know that I will probably like the characterization that Johnny does but I more than likely will still not like Rochester.

And this does not necessarily mean his art-it's more of the type of man that he was. The Aristocrat. He had his good points but....

And also you do have to realize that there is a monkeying around with the history here in this play. Truly there is.

For example Barry is 15 years old when they become involved I don't believe that's how it's actually portrayed in the play. At least that's not how I interpreted it.

To me this is a good means of putting Wilmot's name out there and introducing him back to the world. Perhaps he will be better understood and accepted for what he was and That is what I think the play is trying to say with the opening prologue and then the ending Do you like me now?

Banana


Good question Karen -

I've only seen the movie once & have not read the play, but I think I'd have to answer yes, I like him, because at least he wasn't afraid to take a risk and put himself out there in all his flamboyant debauchery. I think of him as a 'sensualist" - he just wanted to FEEL something besides the same old routine stuff.

And I think that's a nice tie in to Johnny's philosophy of choosing a role because it hasn't been done to death. He's attracted to something DIFFERENT from the ordinary, and the Earl was looking for any sort of stimulus to transport him out of his ordinary feelings. He wrote stuff that no one else dared to put to paper, and I have to admire him for that.

Me thinks I need to read the play to appreciate the original smutty poetry in all its glory!

Karen

I think the "do you like me now?" has be answered "yes" by me. As we went through the play the one thing, even in his most self destructive period, the man never lied. He admonished people not to like him, not to "want him".....he warns Downs "you will die of this company" and is paid no mind.

Do you like watching him self destruct? No.

Do you like seeing him ignore his wife? No.

Do you like his tenuous relationship with the King? No.

Do you like him now? Yes

You like his wit and his power, his over the top attitude, his caring for all of the women in his life in his own way, you like that he constantly fights for what he thinks, often by angering and irritating the people around him, including the king and the members of the House of Lords. You like his inexhausting struggle to be heard. You like his poetry and his love of all words. You like him because he fights for what he thinks is right, we like that he tells the truth. Sorry to report to you, Lord Rochester, all these hundreds of years later, we like you now.

Deppraved


I like his single-minded determination to live by his own rules, and damn the consequences.

Lufirel

I'm not sure that like is the proper word for what I feel about Rochester. Like Karen I don't think the way he treated his wife was particularly admirable, nor is it a great thing that he more or less wasted a good deal of his natural talent. I do, however admire Rochester's honesty and hatred of artifice, and his determination to live his life by his own terms. I suppose I really find Rochester fascinating. He was not in fact a likable person (as far as one can tell) but then he didn't try to be a likable person. It could be argued that Rochester's inherent truthfulness compelled him to show himself as he truly was, and most people would not look so swell if they exposed all their faults for all the world to see. It could also be argue that Rochester's cynicism is itself a front and that he is not really such a nasty and unfeeling fellow as he would like us to believe. Furthermore, even with all the rotten things he does there is nevertheless something compelling and attractive in his personality (at least in my opinion). I find Rochester compelling because he is so complex (as is said in the play there are so many versions of him to chose from). Frankly I don't think I'd be as interested in him if he was simply a nice guy (I'm the type who is always rooting for the villains). So do I like him? Not precisely, but like is too tame a word for Rochester anyway. I do, however, find him intriguing and exciting.

Hibblette

How about this for a question-If Wilmot were in existence in this day and age, like if he showed up in a Law and Order SVU-would you like him?

Gypsylee


Hi everyone,

I have to agree with you Karen. I like him now. His constant search for truth and honesty is what I admire. He is very up front about warning people not to like him for what he does, but there is a lot more to him than that. A very complicated man...........a true thinker

Gypsylee

I would take his warning and stay clear of him in a personal relationship, that's for sure, but for what he says and how he thinks......I would hope I would like him still.

Hibblette

Okay.

Hows this for a thought.

Now that we've been through the whole thing...

You will not like me

Do you like me now

Are we as the readers (audience even) maybe focused too much on that?

Let me play like a casting director and put another light on that prologue.

Instead of clinically looking at it as just a prologue (remember that's exactly how I described it) let's look at it as pure sex.

His line Do you like me now perhaps should be looked at from the sexual point of view. It's not about having tea with him-it's about what he enjoys doing. Getting someone into his bed.

Shadowdog

I would have to (based solely on the film) no I don't. This man was self-centered, a hedonist, and extremely selfish. He showed no sympathy or empathy for others. Even in his interactions with Elizebeth (both of them), he was more centered on himself then he was concerned about their emotional wellbeing.

As I said, this is based solely on the film. I have several books on order which will probably influence my view here. For instance what I have read so far, Wilmot was a brilliant writer with a sharp mind and wit. This did not come thru in this film.

This is not to say that I am criticizing the film, it is brilliant for what it does but does not cover the totality of his life. JMHO

Hibblette

From what I'm hearing they didn't really show half of the things he did and they may have even cut something from the film that I feel really shows just how self centered he was. The cutting of the Dr. Bendo scenes. From what I'm hearing they cut the part that shows he is knowingly infecting women with the Syphilis. This is despicable. And I actually understand why they would cut that.

Granted he was brilliant in his writings-absolutely. But...there are just somethings that cannot be overlooked. It's not judging as far as his soul-if I might but...I do believe in looking anyone over and saying "Is this person a person I wish to be around," if that is judging then so be it.

I'm 48 years old and I have met these type of people and I will admit in my past I have been a bit liberal. Maybe not as much as others but I have known the mercilessness that these people have. Talent-great that they have it but...liking them? There's gotta be two levels. Talent wise-yes. As someone I would enjoy being around-no.

Besides I'm the type of person that hates waste and Wilmot-what a waste.

And no I don't think this reflects badly on the play. I love the play. I love the candidness. I hope the movie has kept that.

I just don't believe that people like Wilmot should be romanticized and I don't think this play does that either.

Mairimaih


I do like him, I see lots I like in him.. then again I have peverse tastes, I can't say I liked everything he did in his life, but I liked more than I disliked.
Sadly so much of his life, couldn't be fitted into the film, but I love Rochester, his poetry and I have built up a bit of a library of his writings and biographys on him, the more I read, the more fascinating he is.. and I like him for that