Originally posted by Karen 9th November 2005


Downs opens the scene with his reasons for wanting to be a "Wit"...why he wants to "be a part of the merry gang" ..why he wants to hang with the rich and famous bad boys. But in retrospect, look where it got him.

They've watched and wagered at the horse races at Epsom and got quite smashed and Rochester becomes beligerant and unreasonable as he pushes the envelope again, Etherege tries to make things right and smooth things over. BUT.....Rochester won't be quieted.

Who, if anyone, do you think is responsible for Downs' death? What did you "see" happen in this scene?

Deppraved


Staff was directly responsible for Downs' death -it was swift- but indirectly it was the responsibility of Downs and the others, not just Rochester. What I see happening is violence fueled by confusion and impulse, the results of drunken debauchery bringing out the worst possible behavior in men already too drunk with their own importance and privilege.

Karen


Why do we think that Rochester got so much bad press on this? Why was he called a coward?

Hibblette


He ran away from the problem and didn't face it.

It is sort of cowardly actually.

As far as the reputation and such if there was one thing that people tried to hold on to it was reputation and dignity. Two things that could actually result in murder back then. It wasn't uncommon. Duels remained (even though illegal) a standard among the gentry.

Deppaholic

Hibblette, you are quite right about the dueling. And Rochester, no doubt fueled by the alcohol, seemed to be always near the action. A very bitter hatred between the Earl of Mulgrave and The Earl of Rochester led to an arranged duel between the two, that should have taken place on horseback..Mulgrave arrived badly horsed, and wanted to fight on foot. Rochester had to withdraw because he was too ill with "distemper," which was probably the pox. He had been treated with Mercury, a month before. Of course this led Mulgrave to brand Rochester a coward. And then there was the incidence of Downes death. Rochester saved himself from a trial for murder, but his enemies made the most of this, until Rochester's death.

Mairimaih



Etherege and others there, were not accused of being cowards, although they were as much a part of it. But then Rochester had enemies, and he was a man it was the 'mode to hate' and those he had been so scathing off in his past, took delight in taking every chance to blacken his name, after all he was not around to reply, banished and sick in the country.