Title: Shantaram revisit Discussion pt #18
Description: The pieces of the puzzle
Karen - July 19, 2007 12:47 PM (GMT)
When Lin hears the Blind Singers again with Khader... he realizes that Khader has had the trip planned "all that time ago." He has been manipulated. The pieces of the puzzle fall into place when Didier shares in a note that it had been Madame Zhou who betrayed him to the police.
And he then takes up Khader's war!!
How do you think YOU would have felt if you were in Lin's place? Would you have gone into war with Khader?
Parlez - July 19, 2007 04:39 PM (GMT)
This is such a stunning revelation of manipulation and betrayal!!
How would it make me feel? Like a FOOL! A fool for love, as it were, but a fool nonetheless. Lin suspected he was being led by forces outside of his control; being engaged in someone else's fate ~
"I felt the irresistible draw and drift of a tide that was carrying me to someone else's destination."
So, in a way, maybe it was a relief for him to have everything made clear and all the pieces of the puzzle put together. At least he wasn't confused anymore about who was doing what to whom and why. But, how sad to realize the people he loved and trusted were using him from the get go. I was delighted by Lin's rage at Khader; if it had been me, I'm pretty sure I would've killed him. Then, instead of going to war, I would've packed up my stack of altered passports and visas, strapped my stiletto to my belt, picked up my medicine kit...and gone looking for Karla! :angry: Then I would've gone to the Palace and been the one to set it ablaze. Then I'd get on the next plane OUTTA THERE!! I'd try my luck as a fugitive elsewhere ~ Hong Kong, Dubai, Brazil, anywhere but Mumbai.
Of course, it speaks to Lin's 'morbid belief in love', as Didier put it, that he didn't do any of those things; that he tried instead to hold on to the city and it's inhabitants, inspite of everything. Going ahead with Khader's war plans seemed to be his final expression of loving "with nothing more than hope'"; of crying "with everything except tears."
irish1967 - July 20, 2007 12:32 PM (GMT)
I meant to go back and re-read this section yesterday, but didn't get to it :( so I'll just say that I'm on the plane with Parlez (I vote for Brazil!)
A nagging thought in the back of my head goes back to Lin and his inability to say no - he was swept up in...
"I felt the irresistible draw and drift of a tide that was carrying me to someone else's destination."
but was unable (unwilling, maybe?) to fight the tide - the more I think about it, and I don't think I can adequately express or explain it - I don't think that, throughout most of the book, Lin is ever, really in control of what is going on in his life.
:crossfingers that I will have time to re-read sections today!
Parlez - July 20, 2007 01:06 PM (GMT)
Okay, irish, we're off to Brazil! But not on Tam airlines, and not to Sao Paolo, agreed?
It does seem like Lin was sort of backing into his life all along. Not a lot of clarity or intention there. Just responding to outside stimuli. Going with the flow. Coping. Whatever. That seemed to be his mantra, along with saying yes to everything. His instincts prevented him from going totally out of control, but still, he didn't seem to have (or want) much control over his life.
Karen - July 20, 2007 01:24 PM (GMT)
Really good points about him seemingly not wanting some sort of control over his life...
Depputante - July 20, 2007 05:59 PM (GMT)
Really! I'd never thought of it that way. Makes sense though. Him being manipulated. I always thought of him as being such a STRONG, will ful, and purposeful charachter rather than being manipulated. all the way to the point, where his acceptance of Afhanistan.
Flipping the coin, couldn't it be considered as doing the right thing. Seeing beyond what others are doing, to the core of the reasons why they are doing what they're doing. Doing the right thing, for the wrong reasons. Aha! :ph43r:
Have you ever done the right thing rather than taking the easy way out?
What say you?
herestoyou - July 20, 2007 06:28 PM (GMT)
I've loved the discussion here, sorry I couldn't contribute more. For me Lin can't really have control over his life as long as he's a fugitive. I think after getting to India, falling in love with the people, he does just get swept along with the feeling that he doesn't want to get caught, but that India is the place he will have the most "freedom." Does he make all the right choices along the way? I don't think so, but that's all part of his journey.
| QUOTE |
| Have you ever done the right thing rather than taking the easy way out? |
I think that's a question we all face throughout life. I feel I have in some cases and in others would be guilty of taking the easy way as well. I try to instill the idea in my own kids--standing up for what's right even though it may not be popular. I think it falls under "being able to live with yourself forever" category.
Rose Sparrow - July 20, 2007 07:16 PM (GMT)
There is no way I would have gone into war with Khader!
Lin loved him as a father and he thought Khader had somehow loved him too, but after finding out all the things he did, especially with the clinic which Lin thought was probably his 'best effort at some sort of redemption', he knew right from the start that he was a pawn.
I know that if I had put my trust in someone only to learn that they had used and betrayed me over and over again, I would want some kind of revenge! I'm amazed that when he was telling Lin everything that Lin didn't just beat him to death! But Lin had this unbelieveable ability to forgive and I think it was because he felt that whatever woes or misfortunes that came his way, he deserved. So how can you hold someone accountable for that.
Depputante - July 20, 2007 09:02 PM (GMT)
It could also be that Lin is accepting his fate, within the India Hindu Caste system.
Parlez - July 21, 2007 12:49 AM (GMT)
| QUOTE (Depputante @ Jul 20 2007, 03:02 PM) |
| It could also be that Lin is accepting his fate, within the India Hindu Caste system. |
I doubt the caste thing entered into the picture since Lin was neither Hindu nor Indian. And as far as I know there isn't a prisoner or a fugitive caste. :D
I tend to agree with herestoyou about Lin not having the control over his life he might've had or wanted due to the fact that his main focus was on not getting caught. However, there was something else going on, me thinks, because he kept pushing that boundary and exposing himself to risks in that regard. I still think he had an unconscious need to place himself under the control of someone who would be like a father figure to him.
amp - July 27, 2007 08:56 PM (GMT)
Even after the revelation about Khader's war plans and being manipulated, I think Lin still wanted to honor his agreement to help Khader in Afghanistan.
Didn't he also need to put some time and distance between himself and Bombay, and Madam Zhou? Time to think and plan, and maybe NOT survive to reap his revenge. Time to get the warrior spirit deeply ingrained in his being. he said so many times that part of his nature was to fight; always on the surface.
Parlez - July 28, 2007 04:55 AM (GMT)
| QUOTE (amp @ Jul 27 2007, 02:56 PM) |
| Even after the revelation about Khader's war plans and being manipulated, I think Lin still wanted to honor his agreement to help Khader in Afghanistan. |
Yes, I think it took Lin a long time to realize there really is no honor among thieves!