Originally Posted by Karen 31st October 2005




"Allow me to be frank at the commencement: you will not like me. No, I say you will not. The gentlemen will be envious and the ladies will be repelled. You will not like me now and you will like me a good deal less as we go on. Oh yes, I shall do things you will like. You will say, 'The was a noble impulse in him' or 'He played a brave part there', but DO NOT WARM TO ME, it will not serve. When I become a BIT OF A CHARMER that is your danger sign for it prefaces the change into THE FULL REPTILE a few seconds later. What I require is not your affection but your attention."

These are the opening few lines from the prologue of the play THE LIBERTINE. We've seen, in the last few days, some lines from it as well so we get the feel for the scene. We know what the film will look like when Johnny says these words and more.

We have to start any discussion of this work right here, with the prologue. What do you think the author wants to tell us about John Wilmot, the second Earl Of Rochester, before we begin the story?

Kazren

Okay, it's the 31st and I've been waiting for this. I've read several plays and screenplays, and I have to say, this one did confuse me at times, seeming to move from one scene to another scene without warning or set up. Is it just me?

I was particularly confused about the scene where Johnny and friends are out drunk and they knock on someone's door (fogive me it's been over a year since I read it) and one of their members is killed and somehow it becomes Wilmot's fault.

Can anyone shed light on this? And was I the only one who was a little lost when there were new scenes without any sort of setup?

I hope the movie's transitions are a little more clear.

Karen

OK... I know we are all excited about this, but can we hold off discussion of this part until we get to that part of the play? I think if we discuss it in the order that the action unfolds, we can make more sense of what story the author is telling us...and how it all fits together. So please hang in there with me as we follow the course of the play as the story is told...so let's start with the prologue. Thanks

Deppraved

Kazren, maybe it's my supreme ability to suspend disbelief, but the things you are confused about didn't even phase me! I could envision the whole thing as done on stage. it moved along from scene to scene, and I must say it was not dissimilar to an impressionist painting, in that what I was getting was quick impressions - but I CAN see where you would find it all a bit disconnected.



The biggest impression I get from the Prologue is that Wilmot did not love himself. He was disillusioned with life and the Monarchy; bored with life, searching for pleasure and digging his own hole - all the while knowing this, but not being able to control his desires.

he is the quintessential Hedonist:

he·don·ism

n.
1. Pursuit of or devotion to pleasure, especially to the pleasures of the senses.
2. Philosophy The ethical doctrine holding that only what is pleasant or has pleasant consequences is intrinsically good.
3. Psychology The doctrine holding that behavior is motivated by the desire for pleasure and the avoidance of pain.

It would always leave him feeling unsatisfied and needing to go further.

He enjoyed shocking people to amuse himself.
He felt entitled to have or do anything he wanted, whenever he wanted, and hang the outcome.

Captainjacksparrow

I think that the author wants us to be warned that this is a tough play....that there will be no holding back of punches and that it will be matter of fact as to the lifestyle of John Wilmot, and that John was not a "nice" guy that he LIVED life and lived it the way he wanted and did not care what others thought........

Deppraved

You're right about that, cjs--it IS a warning, as in "caution: contents are HOT".

Karen

What does he have Wilmot tell us about himself that could set the tone of the play? Wilmot says alot about himself....very telling stuff.

Deppraved

He may be telling us that no one is safe from his charms--that he has IT, and knows how to use IT, but to his advantage only. He is telling us that he is not likable, for that reason. He is admitting he has no scruples, but is good at pretending he does when the occassion calls for it.

In today's vernacular, he'd be known as a "player". Don't get attached, you'll get hurt-

....don't play with me, 'cuz you're playin' with FIRE.

Karen

He plainly does not want to be liked because he doesn't find himself likeable. BUT why does Jeffreys bother to warn us?

Ellen

If I wasn't warned ahead of time, I'd find his actions unbelievable. The Earl was totally "out there". I think Mr. Jeffreys was just trying to get us to understand that what we see is really what happened. If not, it would seem more fiction than fact.

Lufirel

A prologue is basically there to draw people in (as I think John Wilmot himself says in the play). Since "The Libertine" is, as I see it, basically an exploration of John Wilmot's character, in order for people to be interested in the play they have to be interested in Rochester. The prologue gives us an intriguing first glance at him. Many of the traits that he demonstrates throughout the play are present in the prologue; his charm, his wit, and also his cynicism and self hatred. I think this taste is meant to intrigue us so that we will continue reading (or watching as the case may be) because we want to find out exactly who this interesting person is and what makes him tick.

Karen

Good points Lufirel! And welcome to JDR.

Hibblette

A prologue is also suppose to give you a taste of what the tone of the story is.

You should know right off that it is not a lighthearted comedy. And the comedy is going to be not your usual comedy but comedy that has a bite to it. The rest of it is pure drama.

I also think it is saying there is somewhat of a moral. I do get that from the prologue.

MantLMaris

"What I require is not your affection but your attention."



To me this is the essence of what the author is saying. He has written a good story, an interesting story. It is not Care Bears with puppies and kittens. It isn't the feel good story of the year. Still it is a story that will touch you and in order to do that the author requires your attention. BTW, hello everyone.

Lufirel

Thanks for the welcome guys. I've been lurking around here for some while but all the recent excitement over "The Libertine" has finally convinced me to wade into the action (I'm a great John Wilmot fan!).

Regarding the prologue:

I do think it sets the tone for the play as well as the character. My point is that there could be no "The Libertine" without Rochester since the play is basically one long and involved character study. The prologue also reminds me of one of Rochester's more self-deprecating poems, "To the Postboy" which culminates with the lines, "The readiest way to Hell - Come, quick! Ne're stir: The readiest way, my Lord, 's by Rochester." In this poem Rochester brags of his sins, "I've outswilled Bacchus, sworn of my own make, Oaths would fright Furies, and make Pluto quake" just as he talks abouts his constant ability to be "up for it" in the prologue. Yet in this poem, just as in the prologue, there is a definite (and not so very subtle) layer of self-loathing. In other words, besides foreshadowing the play and the character, this prologue is just quintessential Rochester.

Karen

I think Jeffreys did a very good and thorough job of giving us the feeling for the character we are meeting. Wilmot is a really complex character and I can't wait to see what Johnny does with him.

Hibblette

Totally agree.

It is one great big Character study on Wilmot. And Wilmots poems were his own self study into his psyche.

But of course this brings this point in-the self loathing and the road to hell that he loves to speak of...does he feel remorse in this prologue for example.

I don't think he does actually, so does that not really set the tone of I enjoy dancing with the devil. And well I will say I like Wilmots poems but in studying history-Wilmot is not one of the more likables as far as I'm concerned. Some of it has to do with the waste of his talent and some of it has to do with the hedonistic and selfish attitude.

But his talent is great. No question about it.

MerryK

I didnt have time to pop in yesterday and so many of you hit upon my same thoughts.. but I couldn't have said it better than the above.

Welcome aboard Robin.. glad to have you aboard.