Pic of World Trade Centre (the village in the sky) by Johnnylubber


It's a party in the sky wiith a lot of the main characters in the same location in a place that shows the diametric opposition that exists side by side in Bombay between the modern and wealthy and the poor.

Then the story takes a 90 degree turn for us when Karla asks Lin to break Lisa out from Madame Zhou's palace, but there's a surprise for her as well as she learns that Lin loves her. Karla reacted to Lin's declaration by saying "STOP IT!"

Why do you think Karla reacted so strongly? What do you think really happened in this scene? What do you think was supposed to happen?

And what do you think of the main women in this story? Karla? Madame Zhou? Lisa? How do they relate to Lin and Lin to them?

(scratches head in wonder)

Perhaps Karla is protecting her heart, so she said Stop it. :unsure: whereas Lin is protecting his body. Therefore they never really stick together.

..and Ulla too.

Karla, is very charasmatic, strong, and adaptable, but with broken heart, big time.
Ulla, the prostitute is , like mentioned before, a product of the enviornment...gone bad.
Lisa, fortunately found her 'rock' trade quickly enough to be 'normal'.
Madame Zhou,...well she's just weird. :blink:

I'm not sure what you mean. Like in writing, I have no idea.

Okie dokie! ;)

This is a big ol' book....gotta get those questions asked. LOLOL

OK then,
continuing with Karla, heart/ body differences with Lin.

Whereas LIsa Carter protects her body...something similar with Lin.
They end up together, right?

Edit to change name to Lisa Carter.

I've had a hard time understanding Karla's behavior in many instances, and this is one of them! I wonder if she's thinking Lin's declaration of love comes too soon; that he doesn't really know her but has fallen in love with his idea of her, if that makes sense. Fantasy stuff, not reality. On the other hand, she seems to prefer to remain mysterious and won't let him get close, so it's a catch-22 situation for them both.
The times Karla asks Lin to help her, like with getting Lisa out, seem to be efforts on her part to have him prove himself to her. It's like she's saying, "If you love me will you do this?" If he says no, it proves he doesn't. But when he says yes it doesn't seem to be enough for her either. Weird.
Personally I think Karla has too much to hide to ever be in a relationship. For whatever reason/s she just can't open up and be honest and trusting and take that kind of a risk.
All the non-Indian women in this story seem to have the same flawed, damaged aspect to their personalities... I wonder: were they that way before they came to Mumbai or did being in Mumbai bring that out in them?

I can't help but wonder why Greg wrote them this way? What was he showing or saying?

Maybe he just didn't want his charachters to be redundant, and emphasized their differences, since they each have some different difficulties.

I think the Karla / Lisa Carter differences might be the only ones that really relate to Lin. Maybe.

Edit to change name to Lisa Carter

I don't know, Karen...except that maybe the character flaws go with the territory. Like I said before, being a single female living in a third world country doesn't have quite the same sense of adventure, freedom or charm that being a male in the same circumstance has. Maybe GDR wanted to show that difference to some degree?

That sure could be the reason. It makes sense!

I think Lin tries to explain it very well in that scene when he says to Karla that when loves happens you don't have a choice. In her own way she tells him that you do. For some reason, Karla had chosen to hate love and I find that interesting because even though someone might feel that way because of an event in their lives that hurt them and they refuse to subject themselves to that type of hurt again, I think it is a temporary situation. And I think Lin is right. When you love someone, romantically or not, it is not a choice you make, it just happens.

As for the women in this story, I agree that they were all damaged and flawed in one way or another, which is why Lin was always there for them. A cry for help, whether obvious or not, is not someting Lin would turn his back on. They were also in India because they ran away or to 'start over' so to speak, just as Lin was.

The madame was a different story. She was just evil.

Hmmm... We know so much about Lin's backstory and why he ended up in India, but GDR gives us almost no information about the women's pasts... They're just there when he shows up and their behavior isn't explained by where they've come from or what's gone on before. That may be why I find them rather difficult to understand. They all seem so desperate in one way or another. I'm curious about why/how they found their way to Mumbai in the first place... They all clearly have a ton of emotional baggage, and act out accordingly, leaving Lin's head spinning a lot of the time!

I read a passage near the end of the book, where Lin is talking to Lisa Carter, and eh says that he stopped loving Karla when he left Afghanistan. And he loved but couldn't trust. And Lisa says it's a pity or some response, which was quite interesting.

I'm betting that in Shantaram 2, ... that Lin , since he's sorted himself out...gets Karla. :wub: :wub: I still think those two ought to be together.

Lots of people have sought enlightenment of some kind in India. I think it's a haven for the confused, searching, disenchanted, disenfranchised members of society and India seems such a mystical melting pot.

I think GDR is showing a cross-section of "lost" women of the Western world trying to find a place to fit in or blend in, because life was so dysfunctional for them where they came from. And India seemed to either enable them to stay that way or overcome it. At least none of them seemed eager to leave.

Karla was afraid to give her love to Lin. There must have been something she recognised in him to fortify her general distrust in mankind.
Her protective wall was a mighty fortress and to allow one small weak spot would bring the whole thing down and leave her vulnerable. That was obvisouly not acceptable to Karla.

Besides, I think it's a brilliant piece of writing to leave that affair unrequited. A bit of tragedy is sometimes better than the kurt happy ending.

amp, I"m glad you're plugging along in the discussion! Another pov is always nice.


I would LOVE to see Johnny have a sweet kurt happy ending with Karla! Imagine the Screen caps! woohoo

OTOH, he could also be suggesting that India has a place for everyone. ;)

Right, amp, I think it's an important point you make about people coming to India seeking enlightenment, and not finding it. It's not a given. And it's not that easy. I don't think the women in the story had that particular goal; they were more wounded escapists than spiritual seekers. And they did seem stuck to me, even though none of them ever said so. They couldn't go 'home' for one reason or another, but they weren't doing a very good job of building a new life for themselves in Mumbai either. Drifting. Surviving. Existing for the sake of existing. Very sad really, their apparent lack of creativity...especially in a country that tolerates pretty limitless forms and expressions of creativity!

I often wondered if the women in the story were just there to help Lin show or find a part of himself. There really wasn't a "normal" or "unwounded" or "undamaged" one in the lot. :(

Which brings Lisa Carter to mind...
Of them all, she was the one who was able to pull herself together and make a life that was dynamic, meaningful and fulfilling. Yet Lin essentially rejects her - why?? Did he prefer the damaged, the wounded and the mystifying over the determined, courageous and honest self-starter? Perhaps he felt he had more in common with the former type than with the latter...