Lin was a man on the run. Living with false freedom. It seems to have haunted him in everything he did and everything he said. It was a constant theme throughout the book.

"Karla said to Lin, "with sudden and disconcerting bitterness..'When you were talking to Didier about freedom, when he asked you the freedom to do what? - you said, the freedom to say no. It's funny, but what I was thinking it's more important to have the freedom to say yes.' "

Do you think Lin used the "freedom to say no"? He rarely said "no" to anyone or anything. Why do you think he didn't say "no" more often? Is is about freedom? Guilt? Lin talked and thought often through the story about "doing the right thing for the wrong reason."

What do you think?

The freedom to say no...

Every day, we are all asked to do something for someone. I'll venture to say that all of us who are participating in this discussion have the freedom to answer the request in the way that is best for us. As we are deciding on an answer, we take many things into consideration, probably the biggest of which (to quote Ana Maria) "what's the benefit for us?" We may say yes, even if we want to say no because the benefit is greater than the cost or we may just say no if the cost is greater than the benefit. Either way, if we say no, other than some grumbling from the person making the request, there probably isn't any real negative consequence to declining the request.

In Lin's case, he is a man on the run. He is a man who is on Interpol's wanted list. He is a man whose associates aren't the most savory of characters. When someone makes a request of him, what could happen if he says no? They could decide to bring Lin to the attention of the authorities (it is obvious to them that he is into something, everyone he hangs out with is - even if they don't know what it is) and as a result Lin could lose his freedom. Lin does not have the freedom to say no because if he does, it could cost his freedom.

Can't wait to see what others think - but now, I have to accomplish some things before we go to the movies this afternoon. Unfortunately, not our favorite pirate, but our favorite wizard...

Yes, Lin rarely said no to anyone, I wish he had to Ulla the night he was arrested, and I think it's interesting that he said no to Karla when she asked him not to go back and stay with her in Goa. That no surprised me because he really loved her.

I also think Lin realized the life and love that he lost while he was high and commiting crimes and the guilt of that had set in. He was trying to not to waste the rest of his life so he became someone that you could depend on regardless of the situation.

Well, being on the run, I'm not sure that he really was a 'free' man. His being on the run causes him to use his limited freedom to say yes more than a truly free man would. I feel a truly free man would say no much more often.

What would compel a person to do the right thing for the wrong reason?
Is this something that all men have?
Is it a simple passion or pride, just to do the right thing, under any circumstances?
This is one thing that brings me here to re-read the book.

Is it more important to have the freedom to say yes?
Well, I suppose if you're a man on the run, and being chased, saying YES as fast as possible would be important.
If you're a normal bloke...I don't know...which would be more important? The opportunities to say "Yes" seem to be few and fleeting in my case. I tend to use the opportunities to say 'No' much more often to keep away the nasties.

Today, I'm answering questions, with more questions I'm afraid. :blink:

:wacko: So why did he say no to Karla? For the greater good of man kind? Is helping in the greater good more important to Lin than Family? or Money?
Perhaps he feels he has a debt to society to pay. I would think that most men's pride would lead them to either the money or family, rather than the greater good. :shistle

These are great philosophical issues ~ freedom, boundaries, choice-making ~ yikes! If there's one complaint I have with this story it's Lin's constant apprehension about getting caught and losing the freedom he's likewise quick to conclude he doesn't have. That's not the best use of deductive reasoning, if you ask me! But then I've never been on the run or a fugitive, so I can only assume his overwhelming fear is justified and that his inability to say no reflects that psychological state of mind.

So why did he say a big fat NO to Karla? That one's still got me confused... :blink:

Lin has not been able to say no during most of his life-in prison one has no choices about the time to eat, shower, smoke, sleep. When he made the decision to enter the life of crime saying "no" was not an option or he would be killed by his partners or captured so he had to continue the illegal deeds. Hiding in India was his quest to be able to say "no" for the first time but he had to keep looking over his shoulder-sticky situation. And to be honest most people cannot say "no" to everything in there life-be it career, family, etc. and I think that is part of Americans obsession with celebrities and wealth-more options to say "no".

That one has me scratching my head too...

Fear of vulnerability? Having to lie to someone he loves? Fear of getting them too involved in his "life" ??

Or,could it be that Karla was the one person he felt "free" to say "No" to? His business dealings were another story. However, by using that freedom, he lost the woman he loved. Would he have answered differently if he wasn't on the run--most likely.

I don't know...it almost seems like Lin was in so deep with Khader by that point that, of the two of them, he chose to say 'yes' to the mafia boss by saying 'no' to his lady love.

I'm not convinced Lin's inability to say 'no' stems from being incarcerated. I work with elders who reside in nursing facilities, and while those places aren't prisons exactly, they often have the same regimented schedules and routines. I've noticed that some elders exercise the only choice they have left to them by saying 'no' ~ to activities, to meals, to baths, to whatever they're given a choice about. The answer is NO, not YES. The obedient ones say Yes; the more independent, stubborn or less-obedient ones routinely say No. Lin seems to have the latter type of personality.

And, yes, I agree that the vulnerability issue would've come up for him, particularly since Karla couldn't/wouldn't explain WHY she wanted him to stay and was so inflexible about it. I don't get that either ~ if she loved him she would've given him her reasons, or let him go and come back. Ultimatums are not the stuff of loving relationships!

So...the freedom to say 'no' for Lin is an authority issue I think. He abdicates his own authority to Khader time after time, framing it in gratitude for the older man's protection and praise. I think there's some real father issues at play here for Lin...

Well I know one thing.. I said "NO" back outloud at Lin plenty of times at some of the situations he would be about to get himself into..

~ Mary Kay

I also think with Lin/Karla it was an ego situation and Lin even refers to that in that whole scene. Just part of his journey of self discovery I think.

Yes, this really rings true for me - the story is about Lin's self-discovery and evolution. The personal parts are written in a reflective mood; with a kind of that-was-then/this-is-now point of view. I like that. There are crossroads we all come to in life when we make a choice to go down a certain path that changes our lives. If we were to be presented with the same choice/s now, we might choose something else.
Lin's ability to look back and acknowledge those 'crossroads moments' makes the story even more compelling to me.

That's a good point, Greg's able to show Lin learning and changing as the story goes on.

My quick response is to say in India you must surrender. They don't take NO for an answer!

As always I'm in a rush but will be back later to mull this question in a bit more depth.

We'll be right here..... ;)

I think because Lin was so dependent on the kindness of strangers, that was the main reason he didn't say no more often. He needed people who flew under the radar for his survival. He never could have made it alone!

This is why he did not feel free to say no, while Karla had no trust in people, and wanted to be able to say yes, but couldn't let herself get that close again.
I'll reject you so I won't have to be rejected. This may also be the reason why Lin said no to Karla in the instance that was mentioned.

I think Lin needed to be with people who would protect him. In that regard, then Khader was his 'best' choice.

I agree also that the WHY did she give him an ultimatum, and WHY he said NO, are not particularly clear.